近日，由南非政府资助成立的南非广播公司(South African Broadcasting Corporation，简称SABC)对南非核工业协会(Niasa)新任主席Itumeleng Mosala教授进行了专访。
with energy sources right now it will
现在有了能源
only get worse in the years to come
只会在未来几年变得更糟
does this then mean nuclear energy must
这是否意味着核能必须
be something to be added to that mix and
成为要添加到该混合中的东西
perhaps significantly so absolutely
也许绝对如此
absolutely absolutely Peter and to the
绝对绝对的彼得和
credit of government there was a time
政府的信誉曾经有一段时间
when I say government I'm not only
当我说政府时，我不仅
talking about the incumbent the current
谈论当前的现状
incumbency I am talking about government
我在谈论政府
in general to the credit of government
总的来说要归功于政府
runabout 2006 2007 2008 there was a real
大约2006年2007年2008年
strong plan and intention to supplement
强烈的计划和补充意图
the current sources of energy with
当前的能源
nuclear you remember that there was a
核，你还记得有一个
time when government had planned to
政府计划的时间
build new new energy plants by way of
通过以下方式建设新的新能源工厂
nucleon 9,500 megawatts I think it was
9,500兆瓦的核子，我认为是
and that plan unfortunately fell foul to
不幸的是，该计划犯规
the decisions of politics and and of
政治和的决定
history in the last 10 to 15 years but
过去10到15年的历史，但是
you know had we started that process we
你知道我们开始了这个过程吗
would actually be saying soon we will be
实际上会说很快我们会
out of trouble because nutria is
摆脱麻烦，因为
reliable nuclear is clean and nuclear has
可靠的核电是干净的，并且核电具有
always helped other governments out in
总是帮助其他政府
crisis and times like this so one of the
危机和这样的时代，所以其中之一
challenges that people keep throwing
人们不断抛出的挑战
against the nuclear story is cost is it
反对核故事是代价
a cost that we can afford to have or one
我们负担得起的成本或一个
that we can afford not to have not of
我们可以负担得起的
whatever no this there's a great deal of
无论如何，这有很多
ignorance when it comes to the economics
关于经济学的无知
of nuclear people do fail to understand
的核人们确实不了解
that nuclear is a major long-term
核能是长期的主要问题
economic investment in the cut it's not
削减经济投资不是
like buying a commodity from a shelf
就像从架子上购买商品
it's not like going into a car dealer
这不像去汽车经销商
and buying a car it is an investment
买车是一种投资
of a major economic nature first of all
首先具有重要的经济性质
it would be part of of a great
这将是伟大的一部分
industrialization attempt by our country
我国的工业化尝试
nuclear is not just the component that
核不仅是
brings electricity the building of
带电建设
nuclear plants take ten years one at a
一家核电站要花十年时间
time
时间
and the lifetime of a nuclear plant is
核电厂的寿命是
on average 60 years and so although in
平均60年左右，尽管
our count in temperature I'm making a
我们的温度数
very important distinction here and this
这里和这个非常重要的区别
is why I say there's a lot of ignorance
这就是为什么我说很多无知的原因
when it comes to this when you are
当涉及到这个
looking at nuclear and what resources
看核能和什么资源
you need to build it you can't only look
您需要构建它，而不仅仅是
at accounting costs you won't look at
不用考虑会计费用
economic costs because the benefits that
经济成本，因为收益
camera feet are not simply accounting
相机的脚不只是计算
benefits that economic benefits as well
也带来经济利益
and so although it takes 10 years to
所以虽然要花10年
build a nuclear plant it has a lifetime
建立一个有生命的核电站
of 60 years so you have 60 years of
60年，所以您有60年的
revenues coming from that nuclear
来自核能的收入
nuclear plant that you have built and so
你建的核电站等等
people are particularly ignorant when it
人们什么时候特别无知
comes to that what you need are economic
得出您所需要的是经济的
profits out of a nuclear investment and
从核投资中获利
not only accounting returns and if you
不仅会计报酬，如果您
look at it economically you look at it
经济地看它，你看它
from a point of view often of financial
从财务角度来看
economics and corporate finance and not
经济学和公司融资而非
simply at bookkeeping in bookkeeping
只是在簿记中
terms and you will know that media is
条款，您就会知道媒体是
effectiveness in fact not expensive and
效果实际上并不昂贵，
I dare say as thinking as I'm putting on
我敢说像我穿上衣服一样
my economics hat or my corporate finance
我的经济学帽子或公司财务
head on I dare say it is not
继续前进我敢说不是
unaffordable it is definitely affordable
负担不起，绝对是负担得起的
we need to see the models to be able to
我们需要查看模型才能
judge alright so I believe that there
好的法官，所以我相信
more than 10 countries of 30 countries
30个国家的10多个国家
on the continent that are considering
在考虑中的大陆
working with the energy and that they've
与能源合作，他们已经
already engaged with the IAEA to assess
已经与原子能机构合作进行评估
the readiness to embark on
准备出发
nuclear program so this is a a feeling
核计划，所以这是一个感觉
that a number of African countries are
一些非洲国家
already considering absolutely because
已经考虑绝对是因为
also that one of the difficulties about
也是关于
the debate in South Africa is that it
南非的辩论是
gets distorted by the whole issue of
被整个问题扭曲
what do we do with surplus coal that we
我们如何处理剩余的煤炭
have in the country on the one hand on
一方面在国内
the other hand people are saying we have
另一方面，人们说我们有
environmental concerns which are very
对环境的关注非常
very legitimate I dare say and therefore
我敢说非常合法，因此
we should be looking very strongly at at
我们应该非常关注
renewables but you see renewables and
可再生能源，但您看到可再生能源和
nuclear I'm not against it other
核我不反对其他
liberals and nuclear are both clean
自由派和核都干净
energies but in particular more than
能量，但尤其是
renewables nuclear is dependable nuclear
可再生能源核是可靠的核
is always available once you have it is
拥有后始终可用
more reliable than both coal and and and
比煤，和和
the other renewables so it is absolutely
其他可再生能源，所以绝对
important that countries on the
重要的是
continent should be moving in that
大陆应该在那移动
direction because you need something
方向，因为你需要一些东西
that you can depend upon you need
你可以依靠你的需要
something that is clean and my view is
干净的东西，我的看法是
quite apart from that if you want to
除此之外，如果您想
industrialize we're talking about major
工业化，我们正在谈论重大
major industrialization investments when
主要工业化投资何时
it comes to to nuclear alright then
然后涉及到核
perhaps one final question you've just
也许你只是最后一个问题
been appointed the president of the
被任命为总统
nuclear industry association of South
南方核工业协会
Africa what's your vision for the
非洲您对
association and all the partners that
协会和所有合作伙伴
play a part in developing a nuclear
在发展核能方面发挥作用
energy and technologies in South Africa
南非的能源和技术
will two major issues Peter one is the
彼得会提出两个主要问题吗？
the one that I've just mentioned that
我刚才提到的那个
the partners and the players in the
合作伙伴和参与者
nuclear industry in this country are
这个国家的核工业是
very much the kind of partners in the
非常像
economy that are required to help the
需要帮助的经济
economy take a step forward we need to
经济向前迈进，我们需要
be
是
to create sustainable careers people
创造可持续发展的职业人才
talk about jobs but you know jobs I just
谈论工作，但你知道我只是工作
jobs careers and in a sector and an
就业机会，在一个部门和一个
industry are much more durable a much
工业更耐用得多
more part of what it is that we want to
我们想要的更多
do to create sustainability in our
在我们的可持续发展中做
increment in our society so the nuclear
在我们的社会增加，所以核
sector the nutrient markets the nuclear
营养品市场核能
companies the industry as a whole is a
公司整个行业是一个
very very important area of investment
非常非常重要的投资领域
in our economy and people keep talking
在我们的经济中，人们一直在谈论
about industrialization we talked about
关于我们谈到的工业化
industrial nation and we mustn't forget
工业国家，我们不能忘记
that the president puts a lot of
总统把很多
emphasis of the fourth Industrial
第四产业重点
Revolution and it could be it couldn't
革命，可能不是
be much more relevant than in the area
比该地区更重要
of nuclear technology technology nuclei
核技术技术核
in fact is predominantly technology but
实际上主要是技术，
the second issue about Ybarra Barbot
关于Ybarra Barbot的第二期
what we look at as an association and my
我们将其视为协会和我的
vision for this association is is
这个协会的愿景是
education you know what is dangerous in
教育你知道什么是危险的
a country is when common sense begins -
一个国家就是常识开始的时候-
common sense is nice to have but we
常识很好，但是我们
can't run the economy on the basis of
不能基于
common sense
常识
we can't take decisions about the
我们无法就
economics of as an energy source based
作为能源的经济学基础
on common sense there's a lot of
在常识上，有很多
ignorance in the country economists I
国家经济学家的无知我
don't know where they are and where they
不知道他们在哪里，在哪里
are hiding economies that should be
隐藏着应该
clarifying issues are not doing so
澄清问题没有这样做
professionals and educated people who
专业人士和受过教育的人
should be helping are not doing so
应该有所帮助而不是这样做
people in the technical areas of
技术领域的人
engineering whether it have mechanical
工程学是否有机械
what are you talking electrical or
你在说什么电或
electrical civil engineering are not
电气土木工程不是
visible in the public space we need to
在公共空间中可见，我们需要
lead the way we can't expect people to
引领人们无法期望的方式
simply wake up and understand what we're
只需醒来，了解我们在做什么
talking about so NASA the nuclear
在谈论美国宇航局的核
industry Association of South Africa has
南非工业协会
a very important role to play in South
在南方扮演非常重要的角色
Africa
非洲
mobilizing the partners and the industry
动员合作伙伴和行业
but also in an educational way all right
而且还可以通过教育的方式
we wish you the best of luck thank you
祝您好运，谢谢
very much indeed for joining us on this
确实非常感谢加入我们
day and sharing your thoughts with us
日，并与我们分享您的想法
professor Messala thank you sir
梅萨拉教授，谢谢您，先生
Itumeleng Mosala教授表示：核能是长期的主要问题，可靠的核电是干净的，是我们能够负担的起的。我们需要可持续发展，所以我们需要建设核电，这是非常非常重要的投资，并且南非核工业协会在其中扮演非常重要的角色。
相关阅读：南非核工业协会(Niasa)任命新主席
with energy sources right now it will
现在有了能源
only get worse in the years to come
只会在未来几年变得更糟
does this then mean nuclear energy must
这是否意味着核能必须
be something to be added to that mix and
成为要添加到该混合中的东西
perhaps significantly so absolutely
也许绝对如此
absolutely absolutely Peter and to the
绝对绝对的彼得和
credit of government there was a time
政府的信誉曾经有一段时间
when I say government I'm not only
当我说政府时，我不仅
talking about the incumbent the current
谈论当前的现状
incumbency I am talking about government
我在谈论政府
in general to the credit of government
总的来说要归功于政府
runabout 2006 2007 2008 there was a real
大约2006年2007年2008年
strong plan and intention to supplement
强烈的计划和补充意图
the current sources of energy with
当前的能源
nuclear you remember that there was a
核，你还记得有一个
time when government had planned to
政府计划的时间
build new new energy plants by way of
通过以下方式建设新的新能源工厂
nucleon 9,500 megawatts I think it was
9,500兆瓦的核子，我认为是
and that plan unfortunately fell foul to
不幸的是，该计划犯规
the decisions of politics and and of
政治和的决定
history in the last 10 to 15 years but
过去10到15年的历史，但是
you know had we started that process we
你知道我们开始了这个过程吗
would actually be saying soon we will be
实际上会说很快我们会
out of trouble because nutria is
摆脱麻烦，因为
reliable nuclear is clean and nuclear has
可靠的核电是干净的，并且核电具有
always helped other governments out in
总是帮助其他政府
crisis and times like this so one of the
危机和这样的时代，所以其中之一
challenges that people keep throwing
人们不断抛出的挑战
against the nuclear story is cost is it
反对核故事是代价
a cost that we can afford to have or one
我们负担得起的成本或一个
that we can afford not to have not of
我们可以负担得起的
whatever no this there's a great deal of
无论如何，这有很多
ignorance when it comes to the economics
关于经济学的无知
of nuclear people do fail to understand
的核人们确实不了解
that nuclear is a major long-term
核能是长期的主要问题
economic investment in the cut it's not
削减经济投资不是
like buying a commodity from a shelf
就像从架子上购买商品
it's not like going into a car dealer
这不像去汽车经销商
and buying a car it is an investment
买车是一种投资
of a major economic nature first of all
首先具有重要的经济性质
it would be part of of a great
这将是伟大的一部分
industrialization attempt by our country
我国的工业化尝试
nuclear is not just the component that
核不仅是
brings electricity the building of
带电建设
nuclear plants take ten years one at a
一家核电站要花十年时间
time
时间
and the lifetime of a nuclear plant is
核电厂的寿命是
on average 60 years and so although in
平均60年左右，尽管
our count in temperature I'm making a
我们的温度数
very important distinction here and this
这里和这个非常重要的区别
is why I say there's a lot of ignorance
这就是为什么我说很多无知的原因
when it comes to this when you are
当涉及到这个
looking at nuclear and what resources
看核能和什么资源
you need to build it you can't only look
您需要构建它，而不仅仅是
at accounting costs you won't look at
不用考虑会计费用
economic costs because the benefits that
经济成本，因为收益
camera feet are not simply accounting
相机的脚不只是计算
benefits that economic benefits as well
也带来经济利益
and so although it takes 10 years to
所以虽然要花10年
build a nuclear plant it has a lifetime
建立一个有生命的核电站
of 60 years so you have 60 years of
60年，所以您有60年的
revenues coming from that nuclear
来自核能的收入
nuclear plant that you have built and so
你建的核电站等等
people are particularly ignorant when it
人们什么时候特别无知
comes to that what you need are economic
得出您所需要的是经济的
profits out of a nuclear investment and
从核投资中获利
not only accounting returns and if you
不仅会计报酬，如果您
look at it economically you look at it
经济地看它，你看它
from a point of view often of financial
从财务角度来看
economics and corporate finance and not
经济学和公司融资而非
simply at bookkeeping in bookkeeping
只是在簿记中
terms and you will know that media is
条款，您就会知道媒体是
effectiveness in fact not expensive and
效果实际上并不昂贵，
I dare say as thinking as I'm putting on
我敢说像我穿上衣服一样
my economics hat or my corporate finance
我的经济学帽子或公司财务
head on I dare say it is not
继续前进我敢说不是
unaffordable it is definitely affordable
负担不起，绝对是负担得起的
we need to see the models to be able to
我们需要查看模型才能
judge alright so I believe that there
好的法官，所以我相信
more than 10 countries of 30 countries
30个国家的10多个国家
on the continent that are considering
在考虑中的大陆
working with the energy and that they've
与能源合作，他们已经
already engaged with the IAEA to assess
已经与原子能机构合作进行评估
the readiness to embark on
准备出发
nuclear program so this is a a feeling
核计划，所以这是一个感觉
that a number of African countries are
一些非洲国家
already considering absolutely because
已经考虑绝对是因为
also that one of the difficulties about
也是关于
the debate in South Africa is that it
南非的辩论是
gets distorted by the whole issue of
被整个问题扭曲
what do we do with surplus coal that we
我们如何处理剩余的煤炭
have in the country on the one hand on
一方面在国内
the other hand people are saying we have
另一方面，人们说我们有
environmental concerns which are very
对环境的关注非常
very legitimate I dare say and therefore
我敢说非常合法，因此
we should be looking very strongly at at
我们应该非常关注
renewables but you see renewables and
可再生能源，但您看到可再生能源和
nuclear I'm not against it other
核我不反对其他
liberals and nuclear are both clean
自由派和核都干净
energies but in particular more than
能量，但尤其是
renewables nuclear is dependable nuclear
可再生能源核是可靠的核
is always available once you have it is
拥有后始终可用
more reliable than both coal and and and
比煤，和和
the other renewables so it is absolutely
其他可再生能源，所以绝对
important that countries on the
重要的是
continent should be moving in that
大陆应该在那移动
direction because you need something
方向，因为你需要一些东西
that you can depend upon you need
你可以依靠你的需要
something that is clean and my view is
干净的东西，我的看法是
quite apart from that if you want to
除此之外，如果您想
industrialize we're talking about major
工业化，我们正在谈论重大
major industrialization investments when
主要工业化投资何时
it comes to to nuclear alright then
然后涉及到核
perhaps one final question you've just
也许你只是最后一个问题
been appointed the president of the
被任命为总统
nuclear industry association of South
南方核工业协会
Africa what's your vision for the
非洲您对
association and all the partners that
协会和所有合作伙伴
play a part in developing a nuclear
在发展核能方面发挥作用
energy and technologies in South Africa
南非的能源和技术
will two major issues Peter one is the
彼得会提出两个主要问题吗？
the one that I've just mentioned that
我刚才提到的那个
the partners and the players in the
合作伙伴和参与者
nuclear industry in this country are
这个国家的核工业是
very much the kind of partners in the
非常像
economy that are required to help the
需要帮助的经济
economy take a step forward we need to
经济向前迈进，我们需要
be
是
to create sustainable careers people
创造可持续发展的职业人才
talk about jobs but you know jobs I just
谈论工作，但你知道我只是工作
jobs careers and in a sector and an
就业机会，在一个部门和一个
industry are much more durable a much
工业更耐用得多
more part of what it is that we want to
我们想要的更多
do to create sustainability in our
在我们的可持续发展中做
increment in our society so the nuclear
在我们的社会增加，所以核
sector the nutrient markets the nuclear
营养品市场核能
companies the industry as a whole is a
公司整个行业是一个
very very important area of investment
非常非常重要的投资领域
in our economy and people keep talking
在我们的经济中，人们一直在谈论
about industrialization we talked about
关于我们谈到的工业化
industrial nation and we mustn't forget
工业国家，我们不能忘记
that the president puts a lot of
总统把很多
emphasis of the fourth Industrial
第四产业重点
Revolution and it could be it couldn't
革命，可能不是
be much more relevant than in the area
比该地区更重要
of nuclear technology technology nuclei
核技术技术核
in fact is predominantly technology but
实际上主要是技术，
the second issue about Ybarra Barbot
关于Ybarra Barbot的第二期
what we look at as an association and my
我们将其视为协会和我的
vision for this association is is
这个协会的愿景是
education you know what is dangerous in
教育你知道什么是危险的
a country is when common sense begins -
一个国家就是常识开始的时候-
common sense is nice to have but we
常识很好，但是我们
can't run the economy on the basis of
不能基于
common sense
常识
we can't take decisions about the
我们无法就
economics of as an energy source based
作为能源的经济学基础
on common sense there's a lot of
在常识上，有很多
ignorance in the country economists I
国家经济学家的无知我
don't know where they are and where they
不知道他们在哪里，在哪里
are hiding economies that should be
隐藏着应该
clarifying issues are not doing so
澄清问题没有这样做
professionals and educated people who
专业人士和受过教育的人
should be helping are not doing so
应该有所帮助而不是这样做
people in the technical areas of
技术领域的人
engineering whether it have mechanical
工程学是否有机械
what are you talking electrical or
你在说什么电或
electrical civil engineering are not
电气土木工程不是
visible in the public space we need to
在公共空间中可见，我们需要
lead the way we can't expect people to
引领人们无法期望的方式
simply wake up and understand what we're
只需醒来，了解我们在做什么
talking about so NASA the nuclear
在谈论美国宇航局的核
industry Association of South Africa has
南非工业协会
a very important role to play in South
在南方扮演非常重要的角色
Africa
非洲
mobilizing the partners and the industry
动员合作伙伴和行业
but also in an educational way all right
而且还可以通过教育的方式
we wish you the best of luck thank you
祝您好运，谢谢
very much indeed for joining us on this
确实非常感谢加入我们
day and sharing your thoughts with us
日，并与我们分享您的想法
professor Messala thank you sir
梅萨拉教授，谢谢您，先生
